The Council of the City of Cortland met in regular session on Monday, May 16, 2011 at 7:00 p.m. with Council President Stocz presiding. Members of Council present were, Dennis Linville, Kevin Piros, Diana Sweeney, Terry Tackett and James Woofter. Absent was Deidre Petrosky. Also present at the meeting were Mayor Moll, Law Director Wilson, Service Director Wittman and Finance Director Moyer.


A motion to approve council minutes from the May 2, 2011 meeting was made by Councilman Piros and seconded by Councilman Tackett. ROLL CALL - Woofter, aye; Linville, aye; Petrosky, absent; Piros, aye; Stocz, aye; Sweeney, aye; Tackett, aye. MOTION PASSED


A motion to approve the schedule of bills to be paid totaling $ 104,146.19 was made by Councilman Woofter and seconded by Councilman Piros. ROLL CALL - Petrosky, absent; Piros, aye; Stocz, aye; Sweeney, aye; Tackett, aye; Woofter, aye; Linville, aye. MOTION PASSED


RESOLUTION R-13-11 - a resolution by the Council of the City of Cortland, Ohio accepting the final development plan of Hawk's Landing as an Integrated Planned Residential Development was read and moved by Councilman Woofter and seconded by Councilman Linville.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - Don, is this up on the hill off of 46?




COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - They have all their clearances to proceed from the EPA or no?


SERVICE DIRECTOR - No, this is dealing with the zoning issue. They have submitted water and sewer plans to me at which time they will be submitted to the EPA.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - Ok, so you are not that far yet.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - Do they have a projection as to when they might break ground?


SERVICE DIRECTOR - I am not aware of their time lines.


ROLL CALL ON R-13-11 - Linville, aye; Petrosky, absent; Piros, aye; Stocz, aye; Sweeney, aye; Tackett, aye; Woofter, aye. RESOLUTION PASSED


RESOLUTION R-14-11 - a resolution establishing an Official Logo for the City of Cortland was read and moved by Councilman Piros and seconded by Councilman Woofter.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - Do we have a color copy of that some place?


CLERK OF COUNCIL - I have one and I will make copies if you like.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - Oh there it is. Thanks Patrick.


MAYOR - This is a logo. We can have more than one if we wanted to have different variations.

May 16, 2011




MAYOR - I have a concern that this one might not adapt very well for stationery. We might have to come up with an alternate for those types of things. A black and white one.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - Did you try black and white.


MAYOR - No, I haven't but I was just saying if it doesn't work this resolution says we can have more than one.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - I think that will be ok, but you can look at it and decide.


ROLL CALL ON R-14-11 - Piros, aye; Stocz, aye; Sweeney, aye; Tackett, aye; Woofter, aye; Linville, aye; Petrosky, absent. RESOLUTION PASSED


RESOLUTION R-15-11 - a resolution authorizing the Clerk of Council to advertise for bids for the 2011 resurfacing program was read and moved by Councilman Woofter and seconded by Councilman Piros. ROLL CALL - Petrosky, absent; Piros, aye; Stocz, aye; Sweeney, aye; Tackett, aye; Woofter, aye; Linville, aye. RESOLUTION PASSED


ORDINANCE 0-21-11 - an ordinance authorizing the Mayor to enter into an agreement with Alexander's Pest Control, Inc. for mosquito control was read and moved by Councilman Linville and seconded by Councilman Woofter. A motion to suspend the rules was made by Councilman Woofter and seconded by Councilman Piros. ROLL CALL ON SUSPENSION OF RULES - Piros, aye; Stocz, aye; Sweeney, aye; Tackett, aye; Woofter, aye; Linville, aye; Petrosky, absent. ROLL CALL ON 0-21-11 - Stocz, aye; Sweeney, aye; Tackett, aye; Woofter, aye; Linville, aye; Petrosky, absent; Piros, aye. ORDINANCE PASSED IN EMERGENCY


ORDINANCE 0-23-11 - an ordinance authorizing Miller Yount Paving, Inc. to resurface Trumbull Avenue was read and moved by Councilman Linville and seconded by Councilman Woofter. A motion to suspend the rules was made by Councilman Woofter and seconded by Councilman Linville. ROLL CALL ON SUSPENSION OF RULES - Woofter, aye; Linville, aye; Petrosky, absent; Piros, aye; Stocz, aye; Sweeney, aye; Tackett, aye. ROLL CALL ON 0-23-11 - Linville, aye; Petrosky, absent; Piros, aye; Stocz, aye; Sweeney, aye; Tackett, aye; Woofter, aye. ORDINANCE PASSED IN EMERGENCY



MAYOR - I really have nothing to report tonight unless there are any questions.



FINANCE DIRECTOR - I just wanted to report to Council that this past Wednesday that I went to a seminar and it dealt with the impact that is going to be coming down with the changes in the tax laws regarding our local govt. as well as our tangible personal property taxes. They also touched on SB5 and


May 16, 2011


I just wanted to let everyone know it was very informative and there was a lot of good information gained from that and I appreciated the opportunity to attend.







SERVICE DIRECTOR - You received the monthly report in your packet due to an overset it was for March and April. One of the Technical Review Meeting minutes that we had in April and I don't think we had one in March. I don't have anything else to add from what is in the printed report unless there are any questions of council.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - What did you find out about the sanitizing of the tower?


SERVICE DIRECTOR - I have not received any additional information since our last meeting.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - Nothing? So we are still just waiting for them to respond. Is there anything else we can do to force them to come out and get that done?


SERVICE DIRECTOR - I can look in the contract to see.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - If they give us a timeframe that would be one thing but they are not even responding and we have all the people waiting for the water tower to go on line. Some how we have to force their hand.


MAYOR - How much money do we owe them?


SERVICE DIRECTOR - Not a whole lot. Just the final site work needs to be performed.


MAYOR - They haven't done that either.


SERVICE DIRECTOR - They are substantially completed, it is just closing out the project and bring the tank on line. I will check with the timeframes of the contract and try to get some additional information from the consultant as well as the contractor.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE ‑ Do we have an alternative? Do we know of anyone else who could do it and how much it would cost if it wasn't in the contract? I know it is in the contract but what if we had to do it outside of the contract is it something that would be cost prohibitive?


SERVICE DIRECTOR - I can't answer that I would have to look into it. There are alternative means for disinfecting a tank according to published standards. It is just deciding on which one we are going to proceed with.


May 16, 2011


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - Nothing we can do ourselves.


SERVICE DIRECTOR - We can fill it with water and do a boil alert and treat it.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - We don't want to do that. They are going to fulfill the contract, right? There would be no reason that they wouldn't. They have been paid timely and they have done their job and timely up to now.


SERVICE DIRECTOR - I am not afraid of them not fulfilling the contract it is just when it will be completed.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - Is everything else ready to do except that?


SERVICE DIRECTOR - Yes. A few minor things like painting the doors and a few punch list items dealing with the exterior of the tank.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - And they are responsible for all that too?




COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - It looks nice out there. It is all landscaped and fenced in and it all looks nice.


SERVICE DIRECTOR - It is usually a rule that the last 5% of a project takes 40-50% of the time.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - Keep us informed on that Don.






PRESIDENT STOCZ - Is there anyone in the audience who would like to address council?


ART CASACCHIA - I live at 250 Dornoch. I primarily direct these questions to Mr. Wittman. I have sent him several e-mails, one specific back in May of this year about the lots, the empty lots in the subdivision that I live in that aren't being cut by the owners. As of this date they still haven't been cut.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - Sir, what phase of Walnut Run are you referring to?


ART CASACCHIA - I guess the last one.


MAYOR - Not the condos. Back on Saint Andrews.


ART CASACCHIA - Do you know where Mr. Linville lives? I live next door to him.

May 16, 2011


MAYOR - He might be talking about city hall because we can't get in to mow it and it is at least 6 inches high.


ART CASACCHIA - I am trying to be specific about the lots and the ordinance and what Mr. Wittman can do about it?

SERVICE DIRECTOR - We will send notification out to the property owners.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - There is a procedure for getting this done. First of all they have to be found to be at fault for not cutting their grass. It is not just as simple as we are going to run out and cut their grass because we have to use your money to do that. So what happens is, letters have to be written to the property owners, they have to be notified that their grass is too tall. We request in the first letter, if I am correct Don, that you are at fault and city ordinance says you need to cut the grass. If they don't do it then we give them a second letter informing them they are at fault and if they don't get it cut within so many days that we are going to cut it and bill them or attach a lien to their property. It is a long procedure and it just doesn't happen overnight.


MAYOR - Part of the issue with Walnut Run is that the Walnut Run ownership out there is hazy right now because a lot of those properties have been foreclosed on by banks and we don't know who the banks are, it is very difficult to find out because they haven't changed the owner of record on the auditor site. When it looks like PMD owns the lot, they don't own it anymore. We notify PMD and they don't even respond and we don't even know where they are.


ART CASACCHIA - Are we at an impasse?


MAYOR - No not an impasse, we have to go through a process to identify who the real owner is.


ART CASACCHIA - Mr. Woofter indicated this certain procedure. The only procedure I have been able to find is 909.02 and it doesn't describe the procedure that you just described. There are no sequence of letters, there is one letter. Based on the fact when Mr. Wittman decides that the grass is exceeding the 6 inch limitation. At that point in time he sends a letter out and the owner has five days from receipt of that letter to cut the grass or forthwith his department has to cut it. So it is not the procedure that you described.




ART CASACCHIA - I don't know what ok means.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - Ok means we try and work with the people in town. Given the circumstances of the weather. I tried to cut my grass today and it was a mess. You have to admit that right now our area is about 6 inches above average as far as rainfall. It is hard to get these things done. Obviously the grass is going to grow and I agree these things need cut and so does my lawn. We try and work with the people that own the property. What the mayor was referring to we don't necessarily know where to send the letters.


May 16, 2011


ART CASACCHIA - Well the owner of record, send it to them and cut it at the city's expense and put a lien on the property and when he tries to sell it we can recoup the money.


MAYOR - I don't think we could cut it now anyway because of the water.


ART CASACCHIA - I have walked on those lots and they are dry.


CLERK OF COUNCIL - Not the ones that are next door to me.


ART CASACCHIA - Pardon me.


CLERK OF COUNCIL - I said I live on Saint Andrews and I have two empty lots on either side of me and no way could they be cut.


ART CASACCHIA - I am talking about specific lots not the ones next to you.


CLERK OF COUNCIL - I am just saying I want mine cut also but they are very wet.


ART CASACCHIA - I think I am getting a vague answer here. We have an ordinance that we are supposed to comply with, not the one that you have Jim. The one that he is supposed to get done and he works for you Mayor right?


MAYOR - Yes he works for me and he does the best he can with the time he has and he is dealing with a lot of other issues in the town right now that are also very critical.


ART CASACCHIA - I understand but this is critical to me. Last year these lots were cut twice. I know you don't care because you don't live there.


MAYOR - That is not true.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - That is not a fair comment. It is not that we don't care because the whole city has situations all around.


ART CASACCHIA - Then change the ordinance Mr.Woofter so the people can't complain about it. Change the ordinance that they only need cut once a year and no one will ever write a letter.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - That is not true either. I am sure Don will do the best he can and look into that if he hasn't already. I am sure he has. Right Don?


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - Patrick, does the owner of the lot, whomever it may be have to acknowledge receipt of that letter? Is there some procedure because we just can't assume it is PMD if we don't get a response and then go out and cut it because they might not own it. What do we need to do?


May 16, 2011


MAYOR - The counsel before is that we need to notify them.


LAW DIRECTOR - And by notifying, the Mayor is right you have to make sure that they get it and we have to make sure they are the owners and then we can proceed. What we have been doing with the foreclosed properties is contacting the bank and I have counseled the city that once we have notified the banks then we can go ahead and cut it and send them the bill. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - In this case if we knew who the bank is that has those lots financed we could send a letter to them.


LAW DIRECTOR - And often times the foreclosure law suit is in process and I have to send an additional letter to the lawyer representing them. So we send two out.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - I think we find in a lot of cases even though the lots maybe in default that the banks have not started a foreclosure process because they are trying to avoid this very same issue. They don't want to have to take responsibility for having to pay for this stuff. Then what do we do?


LAW DIRECTOR - Technically speaking, the owner of record would be then PMD builders or whomever owns it and we need to notify them and go from there.


SERVICE DIRECTOR - Typically the process is I send out just a general letter stating that you need to cut your lots through general mail for $0.44. If there is no response and the grass is not cut then I spend $5.00 for a certified mailing to the property owner of record. In a foreclosure case they never get signed for at which point I have to post in on the property and wait the 5 days and then cut the grass and hope we have the weather and ability to cut it at that point. So that is going to be the procedure moving forward . I am not initiating that procedure at this time because I can't ask people to cut grass when we can't even keep up with what we have. By the end of the month I am going to have the list compiled of all the high lots in the area including lots on Evon Circle, Highlands Ridge and the chronic ones we deal with and we will initiate the process. We will get to it when we have weather conducive to cutting high grass.


COUNCILMAN PIROS - Just to let you know because he has shared with me in the past, he does keep a very accurate log of every correspondence and I have seen them and I know he sends them out.


ART CASACCHIA - I am just wondering where this process is coming from? I have the ordinance of Cortland and I don't understand where this process is coming from.


MAYOR - It came from the Law Director because he instructed us on how we need to notify people when we are going to spend city money.


ART CASACCHIA - So that takes precedence over this ordinance?


May 16, 2011


SERVICE DIRECTOR - So we go out and cut the grass to the six inches and it grows an inch, are we going to send a letter out the next day? It defies logic so I have developed an in-house procedure to manage these lots especially in the wake of all the foreclosures and vacant parcels that we are dealing with. I like the ones that the neighbors have been cutting the front grass and the back grass is really high. There are people that go out and take care of what is in the neighborhood. That is unrealistic for you it is also unrealistic for us to be out there every week cutting those lots to have them 6 inches and look like a vacant yard.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - I think Art's point is that we should change the ordinance. If we have an ordinance and we are not enforcing it, and we can enforce it.

SERVICE DIRECTOR - It says it becomes a nuisance when it goes to seed and another thing when it reaches maturity. So at what point have the weeds on those lots reached maturity.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - Is it 6 inches or


SERVICE DIRECTOR - You are required to cut it to 6 inches. It is any grass growing over 6 inches that is deemed a nuisance. So there is some ambiguity in the ordinance as well.


MAYOR - If it is over 6 inches you are required to cut it.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - We need to take a look at that.


ART CASACCHIA - I don't want to take more time up at the council meeting, but if I could have a copy of that new notification that the city has for notifying landowners as to when to cut their grass. Could I have a copy of that?


LAW DIRECTOR - Copy of what the city uses? Sure.


ART CASACCHIA I would like to start following that to help Don to know when someone is maybe out of compliance. I understand Mayor that you have a lot more problems.


MAYOR - He brought up a good point. If we can't mow the parks and the cemeteries and our own properties we are not going to be able to get out and mow. We are going to have to hire somebody to mow those and spend more city money. If we tried to hire someone right now to mow lawns, I guarantee you wouldn't be able to find anyone to do it. They are all way behind because of the weather conditions. Just like we are way behind, we can't mow when it is raining. You go down and look at the parks and the soccer fields at Pearl and it is about this high.


ART CASACCHIA - He mows the golf course all the time when it is raining.


MAYOR - The landscape of the golf course is a little different.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - The golf course is landscaped for proper drainage for their business. Our properties around town are not designed that way.


May 16, 2011


ART CASACCHIA - The drainage in these lots I am talking about are not wet. You are going to get water on your shoes if you walk in it but they are not muddy, they are wet. I just wanted to voice my opinion and if you could send me a copy I sure would appreciate it.


LAW DIRECTOR - I don't have a copy to send you but the city will send it.


ART CASACCHIA - Don, will send it to me?




ART CASACCHIA - Thank you.


PRESIDENT STOCZ - Anyone else who would like to address council tonight?


CHARLIE PECK - I live at 500 Tournament Tr. Mr. Mayor and Members of Council and the Service Director. We address this body today to express our extreme dissatisfaction with the repeated failure of the city's sanitary sewer system which has again discharged sewage in our basements this past Saturday night. This issue has been identified in the past and it is still not resolved. If you will allow me to offer you some history. The first time we experienced a high water event where water totally surrounded our unit was in the early 1990's. That was before your time Don. This was perhaps the highest water event ever. The creek side water up against the basement window of the unit next door. The street water was up within 3 feet of our garage door and our unit was totally surrounded by water. Long story short and I can't speak for anybody else but there was not a drop of water in our basement. All we had in our basement was our sanitary rough ins and a open floor drain and a plastic coffee can that we had sitting on top of the toilet drain. This was before Cortland did anything like seal the manhole covers. Not a drop. The first water intrusion we had in our residence occurred during hurricane Frances and we witnessed backflow of highly diluted sewage water coming out of our floor drain as well as underneath our basement toilet. The second event was this past Feb. where we again witnessed backflow of the highly diluted sewage water from our floor drain as well as underneath our basement toilet. Now just two months later, we got smart and plugged our floor drain, we again had significant seepage of sewer water up from underneath the toilet. The flow to our sump pump was insignificant, our sump pump scarcely ran. The entire issue was sewage water backup. This has nothing to do with proximity to the creek it has everything to do with sewage water flowing in the wrong direction. I don't believe that my bride of 46 years should ever have to work until 4 o'clock in the morning to save our home from damage from Cortland sewer water ever again. This is the third strike and take your data about 100 year rain events and I should be about 300 years old by now. So maybe we need to redefine what constitutes a 100 year event and make it with the reality of the weather. I guess we have some clues. What happened between the early 1990's and the time of hurricane Frances. We were ok with water all around us and then all of sudden we are not ok. It is a good place to start and something has changed somewhere,. We went from being ok during the most severe events to being not ok during just heavy events. I don't know what happened. Do we have a capacity issue? Did we put too many people on this line? What happened that we allow major intrusions of storm water into the sanitary system? Do we need something done at the lift station? Do we need stronger pumps? Do we need more pumps? Do we need

May 16, 2011


to reposition them? Our position is very simple. We are requesting that this Board give Don whatever resources he needs to investigate this problem and help figure out why the sewage is flowing in the wrong direction. Why the sewage is so diluted that the storm water is breaching our sanitary system? See if you can identify a fix and give us some relief. It is that simple. I will give the Service Director the last word provided he doesn't use it for spin. Thank you very much.


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - The most recent occurrence we have had with water in our basement and sewer in our basement was on 5/4/11. What is really to be noted here is the creek never rose to flood stage. Not high enough to become a threat to our basements. A lake did appear in front of 206, 300 and 400. We think some how the rain formed that lake but the neighbor across the street didn't get any water in his basement. At the same time that this going on our sump pumps are trying to move water out of our basements and it was apparent that the sump pumps could not keep up. During this period we were running three pumps all of which were configured to discharge into the street, backyard or any place else but the existing sewer system. There was no point putting it into the sewer system because the pressure was coming the other way. Fortunately we didn't get any poop in our system because we plugged those things up a long time ago. We get fresh dirty water. As in the past, Beverly and I had the privilege of hauling about 140 sq. yards of soaked carpet up the staircase into the garage. One of the things we have learned is don't put carpet in your basement anymore and don't buy a house near a creek. It is obvious to us that what we think the problem is that the sewers were not cleaned this spring or the work was poorly done. If you look it really can't go very far. The problem has to be inside our compound. Again, I think and some other people do that the place wasn't cleaned. The sewer water and the run off water was going this way out of our sump instead of going down. Council response in the years past to things like this have been rather disappointing or tepid to say the least. My impression now is eventually you all sit there asking innocuous questions waiting for situation to blow over or just go away. The next meeting will be business as usual however the electorate has a part in this error also because they just don't show up. Just before we left Florida I read in the minutes 4 pages of water problems. Next meeting that I came to, there was this lady and me and that is all. I guess they really didn't care but we do. I would ask the service director and all of you sitting there, please make some effort to get that situation taken care of. It is has also been told to me that one of our own Board people was asked about cameras and his response was, we can't afford cameras. Well we can't afford $2,000, $4,000, $10,000 wrecks on our houses either.


COUNCILMAN TACKETT - We have cameras.


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - Yes we do have cameras. This was a Board member not a council member.


MAYOR - A Board member of the condos.


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - It was second hand, but that is what I heard and there is something wrong with that also.


MAYOR - We discussed this after the Feb. meeting and I am not sure we got as decent answer to it yet. That lift station that services that area was rebuilt entirely last year. Old Oak Lift Station.

May 16, 2011


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - That is the one we did about 5 years ago.


MAYOR - We just put a berm around it on it so the water in the creek couldn't infringe on it and then we rebuilt it and put new pumps in it and I don't know what all was done.


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - We are paying the bill for that too.


MAYOR - It is very frustrating because we thought we put a lot of money into it to fix it and it is still not functioning. Did we have a problem with Old Oak on Sat. night?


SERVICE DIRECTOR - Not that I am aware of.


MAYOR - I talked to the guys and there was a problem at Emerson and we had some flooding in the southern part of Heritage as well and that is where the Old Oak pumps to. I talked to the guys about that one and there was nothing wrong with that, it was just overwhelmed. It was between 6 and midnight.

GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - A guy who usually gets it first is Paul Mick. He didn't get none at all.


MAYOR - That doesn't make any sense at all. It really doesn't make sense because Charlie has a backflow valve on his. There should not have been any water coming back into his.


BEVERLY HOLZHEIMER - In Feb. when they all had it we were dry.


MRS. CLARK - We have had it both times. We are new to Cortland and we have only lived here 3 years.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - What is your address.


MRS. CLARK - 200 Tournament Tr. We are right across from Charlie and Maggie. We got it bad in Feb. and then we got it bad Sat. night. Now we are afraid our insurance is going to go up.


MR. CLARK - We had sludge and mud.


MRS. CLARK - Last time it was sewer, the toilet paper etc. It was disgusting and I wanted to put a for sale sign but my husband said no one would be as stupid as us to buy it when we knew this happened before but the people we bought it from told us that it was fixed. It had happened back in 2004 and we didn't have to worry so we bought the place. We love it and we entertain and our basement is absolutely gorgeous. You can ask Charlie because we entertain a lot and block the road and driveways. This is the second time in two months and my basement is getting disgusting. Tonight I came home from work and it smelled horrible. They are still working on it and trying to get it cleaned and sanitized.


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - We live at the other end of that building and the people who lived there before these folks I tried to tell them not to file small claims for $2,000 or $3,000 but they did and had their insurance cancelled. I tried to tell her to save it for the big one.

May 16, 2011


MRS. CLARK - Ours was $9,000 in Feb. and we still don't know what this one will be.


MAYOR - Do you know what happened to the other two units?


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - No we don't know.


MRS. CLARK - The lady next to us is in her 80's and she got water.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - What about the other one next to George?


MRS. CLARK - They had water too. I am not sure how bad because their grandkids came to our door because the road was flooded. The 80 year old lady's was as bad as ours. She just had a knee replacement and she can't even get to her basement.


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - We held ours to 3 inches by using 3 pumps. How did you do down the street?


MRS. CLARK - Last time it was 3 inches and this time it was closer to 6 inches. We finally got it to calm down by putting rubber plugs in the drains.


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - We had three feet the last time. That is all I have.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - Don, have you had a chance to investigate this? Are the lines not being maintained?


SERVICE DIRECTOR - If it is the storm sewer, it is a private street so that is the associations responsibility. The city doesn't have anything to do with storm water in that development. The only thing we would have jurisdiction over would be the sanitary sewer.


MAYOR - He had water coming out the bottom of his toilet so it is the sanitary unless there is a crossover between the two. In the subdivision I guess there could be a crossover between the two.


CHARLIE PECK - In Feb. we had it coming out our forced sanitary drain. This time I put the plug in.


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - The only reason we didn't last time is because we plugged them.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - Don, it sounds like the storms are flowing into the sanitary. Their responsibility is the storm?


MAYOR - Within their development, yes.


SERVICE DIRECTOR - There should be no direct cross connection between the storm and the sanitary.


May 16, 2011


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - I know there is no supposed to be but could there be?


BEVERLY HOLZHEIMER- The sump pump is supposed to go out to the storm sewer in the street. If that is full of water and the street is full of water where is the water going to go? Back in the house.


CHARLIE PECK - I would like you to keep in mind a couple of things. Number one, we talked about how far up in the street the water was. I gave you an example from my first flood the water was about 3 feet from my garage door. Saturday night and in Feb. it was only to the trees in the middle of my yard. It was no where near the height that we once had and something has changed. Number two, the sewer water, even though I had some odor of sewer, the water was predominately clear.


MAYOR - We may need to camera the sanitary back in that subdivision.


COUNCILMAN LINVILLE - Have you guys done any maintenance on your storms? Have you had them checked or photographed? There could be issues in there.


CHARLIE PECK - On the creek side it all goes in the creek.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - Charlie, you know so many of the complaints that we get here and a lot of the time the storm sewers are plugged up. They can be plugged up after one storm.


SERVICE DIRECTOR - If you have black pipe connecting to the storm sewer and those become crushed the water is going to come off the roof into that pipe and not have anywhere to go it will come up the base of the basement and straight down the wall.


MAYOR - Into the sump pump.


CHARLIE PECK - But in my case my sump pump wasn't running hardly at all.


MR. CLARK - Ours was not keeping up and it was overflowing.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - You were in the situation where the street was flooded and it was flooded because there was more water than the storm system could handle.


MAYOR - They said the creek wasn't up that high and it drains into the creek.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - But the road was flooded.


MRS. CLARK - The road was flooded both times and both entirely different things happened. Right across the street we had opposite from what they had. It just doesn't make sense.


COUNCILMAN TACKETT - Don, is it feasible that we can blow those lines out like we did the other ones?


May 16, 2011


SERVICE DIRECTOR - We are currently cleaning sewer district four which includes Tournament Trail. We had a backup call a couple of weeks ago on Old Oak. We are up in that area.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - So Tournament Tr. is scheduled to be done.


COUNCILMAN TACKETT - Even though the storm sewer belongs to the condo association why not while we are there just blow them out anyway?


SERVICE DIRECTOR - We are going to clean the sanitary and we can't go in there because it is not our system to maintain. It is not just them it is every other condo association. It would be similar to the development you just approved Hawks Landing. It is integrated residential development with private streets and storm sewers are their responsibility. We maintain the water and sewer only.


COUNCILMAN TACKETT - Wonder if we were to contact the association and see if they would pay for it. That would take the pressure off the city of doing everybody else's. We can offer the service if the condo association wants to pay for it. That maybe what it is if they have never had them cleaned out.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - Wait a minute. I don't think we are for hire here.


COUNCILMAN TACKETT - They are tax payers and it might solve their problem. That is why I was asking.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER I would say, what are their alternatives? That has never been done and I own a piece of property in there since 1988, 403 Tournament Tr. and we have never had the sewers cleaned, I mean the storm. Right?


CHARLIE PECK - I can't answer factually because I am not aware of that.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - Since I have been an owner since 1988 I can tell you they have never been cleaned.


COUNCILMAN PIROS - Don, if we run the cameras down the storm sewer we will be able to see if there is an infiltration from the storm, correct?


SERVICE DIRECTOR - If it is occurring during dry weather and depends if the camera is going past that section.


MAYOR - It is a very good picture and you might be able to see a breach and you might not.


COUNCILMAN PIROS - But we are already working through that area.


SERVICE DIRECTOR - Flushing to make sure it is clean and there are no obstructions.


May 16, 2011


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - As far as the association goes, who do they turn to then for the storm sewer? Who should they talk to? An average plumber can't do these type of things and who do they go to? Any ideas, just a suggestion.


SERVICE DIRECTOR - They would have to go with a drain company that has the capability to do this work and they are out there.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - I would suggest that the association look into that.


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - I have another question. The bible here, the sketch shows at least seven sanitary sewers in Walnut Run, so I assume sanitary sewers are operating there. Who is responsible for servicing those?


MAYOR - We are.


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - The next thing down at Charlie's place and a few other places the sanitary sewers and the storm sewers cross one another. What is the difference they allow in height, a foot or 6 inches and we have had people working around there in backhoes.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER Who is running the backhoes, George?


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - I have no idea.

COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - They are on the association property and you can't tell me who hired those people on our property?


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - I am not in charge of that. All I can tell you is that equipment has been there. I didn't go and look in the holes, I just trusted that somebody brought them in who knew what they were doing.


MAYOR - That would be a place to look for cross connection and I don't know what the difference in elevation should be.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER- Are you saying these are private or city backhoes?


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - Charlie can tell you they were down in front of his place.


CHARLIE PECK - I am not aware of all of them but I do know that the city did come in and I can't tell you the year but we had huge ice jams on Walnut Creek and the city came in to bust up some big pieces of ice. They did bust some of the cheap corrugated plastic we had running from our sump pumps down to the creek. The people on the creek side have their sump pump drains running to the creek and they did crush some of that pipe.


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - Evidently what we heard this evening there is sanitary sewer seeping into the units.

May 16, 2011



COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - I think the city should do our job and look at the sewers but as well I think the condo association needs to do their job and hold up their responsibility and have the storm systems looked at as well.


MAYOR - But on top of that we have had some unusual rain events. Whether you call them 100 year or whatever you want to call them they are outside the design perimeter of the design system.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - So we are doing what we are supposed to be doing. You heard Don say that is part of the procedure that we are going through here currently so we will be looking at those areas. In the meantime I think you guys should be looking into the storm systems.


CHARLIE PECK - I don't understand how any of this applies to water backing in my sanitary


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - Charlie, don't you think you need to look at both sides of the issue to figure out where it is coming from. We are going to do that.


CHARLIE PECK - I know where the water came from.


MAYOR - You know where it came from last. It may have come from the storm directly into the sanitary.


CHARLIE PECK - It wouldn't be coming up my sanitary drains and that is where the water is coming from. My sanitary is not being pumped to never, never land.

MAYOR - If there is enough storm sewer getting into the sanitary that overwhelms the Old Oak lift station then it is going to get into your condo.


CHARLIE PECK - Lets put another pump at Old Oak and double up the pumps.


MAYOR - If there is a cross connection problem we need to find that.


MRS. CLARK - How do you find it?


MAYOR - With cameras.


SERVICE DIRECTOR - Cameras, flush testing, dye testing. The problem is the majority of these infiltration cross connections is on private property and the houses were built before the 70's or homes that have their storm water has a by pass into the sanitary lateral. So these are illegal cross connections and going after and getting that water out of the sanitary system is hard to do because of the location on private property.


MAYOR - A couple of things have happened since 1990 and one thing is there have been a lot of houses built back there including a whole condo group that leads into Old Oak. All that was built since 1990.

May 16, 2011


SERVICE DIRECTOR - That is relatively a tight system and not subject


MAYOR - I am just saying it is additional capacity for Old Oak and on top of that the infiltration we might have gotten.


SERVICE DIRECTOR - It is a relatively new neighborhood and the electrical use doubles or more during wet weather.


MAYOR - So where is the water coming from? We need to find out.


CHARLIE PECK - Where does Walnut Run Senior and Louis Blvd flow to?


SERVICE DIRECTOR - Those two go into a lift station at Cortland Estates and then comes into the sewer on High St.


MRS. CLARK - Is the Old Oak system what you said we spent money on?


MAYOR - We completely rebuilt it and put new pumps in. That is why we did it to try and help out your area.


MRS. HOLZHEIMER - When you are checking the sanitary sewers will you be able to see at that time if there is a breach between the storm sewer and the sanitary?


SERVICE DIRECTOR - When we go in and camera it, at this point we are just flushing the sewer system but we will schedule to have the camera go in and look for cross connections within the city's sewer system.


MRS. HOLZHEIMER - Our sewer system is within the city so you would be able to see if there is a breach between the storm and sanitary and then we would have to go from there?




FLO HUTTON- Do they need a bigger storm sewer there or is that corrugated damaged?


MAYOR - It is an 15 or 18 inch line.


FLO HUTTON - But you have all this new construction that has been built.


MAYOR - Which one are you talking about?


FLO HUTTON - In front of Charlie's, is that big enough storm sewer?




May 16, 2011


MAYOR - That hasn't changed in a long time. It is not big enough to handle the kind of flood events he was talking about. The thing that surprises me is that Paul Mick didn't get flooded as well. Anytime we have had backup and he is in a lower building.


CHARLIE PECK - Paul may have put plugs in his drains, I have not had seen him.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - I saw him today and I am sure he would have said if he had water.


MRS. HOLZHEIMER - We have plugs in our drains but we got storm water through the sump.


MRS. CLARK - In Feb. it was totally sanitary this time it came through both drains and the sump pump was overflowing and couldn't keep up.


COUNCILMAN PIROS - Hopefully we will find out something when we look at the sanitary.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - We are going to be looking at it soon.


MRS. CLARK - I will do whatever it takes.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - Hopefully we can find some resolve when we do what we are supposed to do up there.


GEORGE HOLZHEIMER - I would just say to the folks here that one of us might want to come to each meeting so we can ask questions about the progress. The last time they had a water crash in Feb. and I read 4 or 5 pages of minutes and I came to the next meeting and it couldn't have been very bad because I was the only one here with the lady down there. I know I told you before but I am telling you again.


PRESIDENT STOCZ - We appreciate all the comments made this evening. Believe when I say that Don tries very desperately to get on top of these hot spots and he will continue to do so. With any good fortune we will work out of this. It does take working together so we do appreciate you being here and letting us know exactly what is happening out there. We will get Don to take a serious look at it and see what we can do. What we can do we will do.


MRS. CLARK - Is anything going on with that little green house right outside of Tournament Trail that is such an eye sore.


COUNCILMAN WOOFTER - That is in Bazetta Township and is not ours.


A motion to hold an executive session to discuss contract negotiations with Council, Mayor, Law Director, Service Director and Finance Director in attendance was made by Councilman Linville and seconded by Councilwoman Sweeney. ROLL CALL - Petrosky, absent; Piros, aye; Stocz, aye; Sweeney, aye; Tackett, aye; Woofter, aye; Linville, aye. MOTION PASSED


May 16, 2011


Council went into executive session at 8:00 p.m.


Council meeting resumed at 8:35 p.m.


A motion to adjourn the meeting was made by Councilman Tackett and seconded by Councilman Woofter. ROLL CALL - Linville, aye; Petrosky, absent; Piros, aye; Stocz, aye; Sweeney, aye; Tackett, aye; Woofter, aye. MOTION PASSED


Council meeting adjourned at 8:35 p.m.






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